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Alternative Rigs for Tangaroas?

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Anonymous (not verified)
Alternative Rigs for Tangaroas?
Apologies if this has been covered in the older forum before. I'm contemplating options for my "perfect boat" and was just thinking about the Tangaroas. I'm curious about possible rig options for them. Does anyone know if they can be fitted with, for example, Tiki wing sail or even crab claw rig? If so, I don't suppose anyone knows how this boat would perform with these rigs as opposed to the original rig? One consideration is that I'd be wanting a rig that I could handle alone sometimes. Anyway, hoping someone out there can shed some light. SD
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Alternative Rigs for Tangaroas?
JWD sell plans for conversion of classics to Tiki Wingsails. I put one on a Hinemoa and it worked very well. I suspect that for some of the classics it might have an impact on the mast position as most of the sail area is in the main rather than the headsails so the mast is placed further forward.
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Alternative Rigs for Tangaroas?
I would be really interested to hear which choice you may make, as i am a great fan of the Crabclaw:) Hans Klaar boat the Ontong Java was a classic Tehini and he converted that to Crabclaw successfully, i do believe. Of course his latest incarnation is currently moored in NZ is pretty amazing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR49ADOkY7g | dont think anyone can tell you how to do it :) More so you just have to DO IT and find out how to make it work. I would imagine Glenn Tieman would be an expert at that by now. Of course the costs of setting up a crabclaw would be fairly insignificant compared to a aluminium mast and all the rigging. keep us posted :))
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Alternative Rigs for Tangaroas?
Fortunately I had plans to go by in rigging the child of the sea and converting a tahini to wingsail would have the same advantage. It would be much harder to make a conversion without knowing the details of the new rig. Having lived with both the wingsail and crabclaw I can recommend both. Can't beat claw for cheap but wingsail is more well known probably closer winded although claw does fine. For anyone trying to get really free, bohemian afloat, crab claw is the only way. For week end sailing, less than full time involvment, select wingsail for fewer quirks and development time.
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Alternative Rigs for Tangaroas?
Hmm, ok, thanks again guys. Sounds like I'm probably better off going with a wingsail. Also, I've made some progress with certain distinctions for my boat. Please tell me what you reckon. After the build attempt on my Ulua, I've come to the conclusion that I'm not the best person to be building my sea boat. It's coming along ok, and should be fine for what I'll be doing with it, but it's taking me way longer than I'd expected and the build quality isn't what I'd have liked (despite being as careful as I could). It should be fine once she's finished (eventually), but if I'm going to be out there cruising along the coast with my family & friends in my Wharram cat sometime, and the weather really picks up, I don't want to be wondering what crucial bit of knowledge I missed out on when constructing the boat. I've total respect for professional shipwrights/boat builders, & I reckon I'm better off getting one to build/project manage the job, using me for the chimp work (I just qualified for long service leave, so I could work for 3 or 4 months straight on it). So that means something smaller. Melanesia - too spartan (I'd never get my wife out on it) CotS - too big & take too long to build Tiki 26/Pahi - great but borderline with time frame & cost, plus still some concerns with hatches on Pahi Tiki 21 - excellent, but some concerns with interior volume for cruising (Rory's amazing success not withstanding - congrats mate BTW, well done on race) Since the build would be done by someone with skill, then the classic range comes back into the realms of possibility Tanui/Tangaroa/etc - too big & cost, plus time frame issue again Hinemoa - hmmm, interesting. Slightly larger than a T21 with (I assume) sitting headroom within the cabins. It seems more robust too, which I like (how much does that extra 200kg affect the performance?). Of course, I'd want to rig with the wing sail. I wouldn't mind stretching the beam to around 4mtrs too (anyone foresee problems with doing that?). I've ordered study plans for the Hinemoa, and have been waiting impatiently for them to arrive. I don't know guys, I think I may just have got it sussed this time. What do you reckon? SD
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Alternative Rigs for Tangaroas?
How about the new Amatasi? Decently big but probably less work and cost than the Tiki or Pahi 26?
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Alternative Rigs for Tangaroas?
I've wondered myself if the classics might still be a great value in this time. Can anyone who has experience with classics and tikis say whether there is any negative to the classics? I thought they were much heavier but the design book gives weights which are similar to the more recent designs. The small ones like hinemoa are sure to be more work to build compared to the stitch and glue tikis anyway. That could be a big factor.
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Alternative Rigs for Tangaroas?
The weights in the design book are only loosely connected to reality
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Alternative Rigs for Tangaroas?
I used to own a Hinemoa which I widened to 13 feet and changed to a Wingsail rig. The widening really stiffened her up and gave enough space on the bridge deck to pitch a 2 man dome tent and the wingsail worked a treat sited on the beam in front of the cabins. The cabins do have sitting headroom, at a pinch 2 people if they are of moderate size. If I was building one I would raise the decks to level of the bulwark tops and dispense with the bulwarks as that would significantly increase the volume. I liked the heavy build, I never worried about drying out and she shrugged off some nasty knocks from other boats which occured when she was left unattended on the mooring.
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Alternative Rigs for Tangaroas?
Hey everyone, thanks again for the feedback. I've sort of sussed the Amatasi out (tracked down the Classic Boat detailing it) and, despite being a clever design, I think I'm discounting it. The cuddy cabins seem too small to fit my purposes. As to actual weights of the classic designs, just how much heavier are they when compared with the stated design weights? How badly do you think this impacts the sailing abilities of these boats? As for the Hinemoa, I've received the study plans, very disappointing - not many useful images of the boat, and the articles (many of them incomplete with pages missing) don't seem to talk much about the boats themselves. It's encouraging to hear of the increased interior room, with the little cabin roofs. Are the rear of the cabins open? Is there a better way of arranging? I can't work out the set up there. Sounds like widening the beam might be a goer, which would be great. Same for using the wing sail of course. I agree that raising the decks to rail height would increase the interior volume lots, but geez I like the clean, tidy lines with the bulwarks. I also wonder if they'd serve well to be able to wedge yourself in when she starts bucking a bit. Robert, how long did you have your Hinemoa? Why did you get rid of it? The apparent ruggedness of the classic designs are certainly attractive to me. An idiot like me needs all the margin of safety he can get. Anyway, thanks again for all the thoughts. Please keep them coming, they all really help build the picture. SD
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Alternative Rigs for Tangaroas?
I had my Hinemoa for about 10 years. I sold her only because I am no longer single and we bought a Tiki 30. I sailed the Hinemoa singlehanded most of the time and one advantage of the bulwarks was that you could leave warps etc. made up on deck without worrying about them going overboard. My Hinemoa had washboards and a sliding hatch in the rear of the cabins, I have also seen hatches in the side of the cabins. Rear openings give somewhere dry and warm to sit when steering in bad weather, the side opening gave you a mini nav or cooking area but based on my experience of the Tiki 30 hatches I suspect there would be a danger of water landing on the nav/cooking area in heavy seas.
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Alternative Rigs for Tangaroas?
Since you are going to have her professionally built you might consider having it done by one of the wharram approved builders in Asia especially its being a small boat. Assuming that you want to have her at home, you could experience a radically exotic culture and cruise there a bit then stick her in a shipping container and send her home and it would still, I think, cost less, much less, than having her built in the more developed world. And having a T or P26 built might be less expensive than Hinemoa including its framework. The builder would advise you there.
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Alternative Rigs for Tangaroas?
Hi guys. Hmmm, more helpful thoughts. The fact that you (Robert) sold your Hinemoa when you stopped single-handing and upgraded to a 30 odd foot boat, is pretty telling. It sort of highlights my little situation. I do like the idea of being able to get out of the weather a bit with the open rear cabins, although security could be a problem. I haven't yet totally cut off the possibility of a P26 yet. The size and capability seem perfect, and I have been thinking lately that perhaps I should just save up for an extra six months to a year, to be able to get one built. Glenn I hadn't thought about getting one built in Asia, it's definitely worth sussing out. I do have a very clever mate who is a shipwright (& excellent craftsman all round) whom I was thinking about approaching, but I'd like to wait until I have gotten most of the funds together first. If he is keen, then I'd want to move quite quickly & not stuff him around. In the mean time I suppose I can ask an Asian builder for a price though. Your suggestion of a maiden cruise through those waters does sound pretty enticing, but I reckon the icing on the cake would be to sail the new boat home myself. SD
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Alternative Rigs for Tangaroas?
hello scott i bought in france a 1985 p26 in good condition and perfect wharram design for some euros. i have just to change for t26 rigg . there is many offers of used small wharram on the market very cheap .why dont you make your hand on used boat waiting us to float again ? laurent
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Alternative Rigs for Tangaroas?
Hi Laurent, good suggestion. Yeah, a second hand boat is still definitely on the cards, although it would have to be a good one. I'd be worried it might have been built by a numpty like me, and could provide a surprise out on the water one day. The other issue is that there seems to be few Pahi 26's available here in Australia (for once I wish I lived in Europe, where it seems you can trip over one going out to get the bread & milk). There is currently one one that I am aware of, located in South Australia. It looks ok and the price is reasonable (AU$ 9, 500). If I had the cash available right now, I'd be straight over there in a flash to suss it out. So I'll be keeping an eye out once the time gets closer. If I happen to find a decent one, I'd be mad not to take advantage of it, even if it needs just a bit of updating/restoration. Cheers. SD
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Alternative Rigs for Tangaroas?
yes scott, that one looks good, comes with motor and high roof, you ll have to change to tiki rig. anyway if you build your own ,it will cost you four times the price plus the brain and shoulder oil ... because the wood hand made craft is not my cup of tea i prefer second hand . there is still enough job on the boat to enjoy the painting, epoxy,and other reparing, full dyneema tiki rig ... 26' is a perfect size to go in the big blue at the less cost and problem. but with so minimum confort that i am not disturb by any friend aboard and fully appraciate the private charms of "solitude" ...
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Alternative Rigs for Tangaroas?
Hey Laurent, totally agree. After the incredibly slow progress on my experimental outrigger canoe build (still only half built & parked pending finishing current university unit), I realise now that I either must buy decent second hand (if available/practical), or else have a full professional build at extra cost (but with extra confidence). At this point I seem to have come full circle back to the Pahi 26. I do still like the Hinemoa, but it is perhaps a bit too small. I guess I could also keep an eye out for a good second hand Taneui/Tangaroa/Raka when the time comes, but the ones I have seen (none in Oz) seem pretty expensive. Guess I'll now how to wait to see what fate has in store for me. SD
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Alternative Rigs for Tangaroas?
OK, Following the thread. I built a Hinemoa years ago and had a list of about 5 mods I would have liked to improve it. It was a fun boat and still remember the adventures sailing it. The Tiki 26 is an improvement on that design. I don't have any experience with the Tangaroa, but I know it is a Classic and goes way back to the basic Wharram paradigm. It's plenty enough boat for going anywhere in any weather. I'm using a cutter rig now, which is based on designs from AYRS from the 70's. The basic plan is mast centered in the boat, 50% in the main, and the remaining 50% divided between a staysail and jib. It works very well. My Narai MKIV would have had about 650 sq ft as designed, but currently with all sail up, I have 1200 sq ft. Roll up the genoa jib and she has about 675 with mainsail and staysail, which works very well to weather. It seems that moving the center of pressure aft loads up the rudder, and that improves lift to windward. Also you can roll up the genoa when the wind pipes up if you're going off wind. If the main starts overpowering the rudder, drop the main. The staysail is in the center of the boat and 300 sq ft will drive the boat in anything over 20-25 knots. It can be reefed to 175 sq ft, but the windage of the boat starts to be too great to sail to windward above about 30-35 knots, but I haven't had too many times to try that. Another good rig for the Tangaroa would be a blade jib and full batten main. One problem with the Tiki rig, is the main mast is unsupported up to the trees and will put belly into the sail when the wind picks up. It's better to run a fractional rig and let the top of the main force bend into the mast to flatten the sail when a gust of wind comes up. Other than that basic problem, this rig has been sailed on a lot of boats and there are not many complaints, except sail handling off the wind, which is a general complaint of any rig. Good luck with the Tangaroa. Set it up for extreme conditions and also to make good passage in tradewinds.
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Alternative Rigs for Tangaroas?
Hi Kaimu, thanks for the interesting (& helpful) rig advice. Just curious, what were the 5 modifications you would recommend for the Hinemoa? SD
JamesP
Online
Joined: 12/23/2011 - 20:33
Plans for a Wharram Wingsail

Plans for a Wharram Wingsail for Tangaroa can be found here:
[url=http://wharram.com/site2/catalog/building-plans/classic-designs/raka-tan...
(Single mast sloop)
Or here:
[url=http://wharram.com/site2/catalog/building-plans/classic-designs/raka-tan...
(Two masted schooner)

Johndoerter
Offline
Joined: 08/27/2016 - 22:22
The schooner wing sail plan

does not appear to still be available,  were there problems, or am I just not finding a page that moved.

John

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