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Amatasi ethnic workboat design

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Anonymous (not verified)
Amatasi ethnic workboat design
JWD recently posted a news item about their Amatasi 27' ethnic design winning the Classic Boat Magazine design contest for an ecological fishing boat design. Classic Boat offers digital subscriptions for those of us who do not live in places where the magazine is readily available in paper form. The July issue, which contains the article about the contest results, is also available to browse online: [url]http://ipcmarine-gb.zinio.com/reader.jsp?issue=416129087&o=int&prev=si[/... Use the page selector at the bottom to scroll to page 54 for the beginning of the article. There's a nice discussion from the magazine of Amatasi's merits, and a sidebar from James about his goals for the design. Personally, I'm excited about the new design, thrilled with the recognition it's receiving, and will be watching for study plans. --Rich in Colorado, USA
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Amatasi ethnic workboat design
This workboat design is really innovative. My interest is that I've got a partially completed TIKI 26. What I see is taking the Crossbeams, deck and rig(thou I'd probably go with a Double Crabclaw)and adapting them to the TIKI. The Crossbeams on the Amatasi scale to about 4 inches in diameter. The Tiki,being a little heavier may need to go to 5 or 6 inches in diameter. Also, the mizzen mast is right where the tiller crossbeam goes, so the tiller pivot points may have to be shortened. Additional upper hullside doublers will need to be placed under the locations of the crossbeam pads, and some sort of landing for the short crossbeam at the cabin midpoint constructed and attached to the inner cabin sides and doubler added to the inner hullsides. Anybody see any thing else that I'm missing? e Steve
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Amatasi ethnic workboat design
Steve, I believe that the Tiki 26 is a lighter boat than the Amatasi. The Tiki is a foot shorter and does not have the chines that the Amatasi has. Also fewer beams and only one mast. The Amatasi is designed to have more load carrying capability which would also add to the weight. A very cool looking boat indeed. David [img]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4099/4777945917_5f098b17da.jpg[/img]
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Amatasi ethnic workboat design
Man, as is I'm not already confused enough as to my best Wharram option. :cry: This design looks like it might fit the bill though. I love the Wayfarer (especially the simplicity, cost effectiveness & the lines), but it seems a bit too small. I love the Child of the Sea, but it's probably too big. I love the Pahi/Tiki (26 - 30 ft) designs, but am concerned with my very ordinary boat building skills & my very limited time availability for such a complicated project (two concepts that have been highlighted with my current Ulua canoe build). Does anyone know if study plans are forthcoming for this Amatasi? Wonder how she'd go with extended (prob shorthanded) coastal cruising. Definitely no chance of picking up a second hand specimen, so it'd probably mean I'd have to build her myself, but I reckon that I'd have a go if it really does prove to be the ultimate option for me. Speak to me, oh wise ones.....
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Amatasi ethnic workboat design
Although you may be right David, generally the ethnic designs are lighter than tikis of the same loa. Child of sea is half the weight of t38, even though it has more x-beams, the child is a tiny boat by comparison. 16' Melanesia is lighter than hitia 14 and just over a third the weight of hitia 17. The weight listed on the site of tw is much less than t21 but maybe this is in outrigger form only. One encouragement to consider Scott is strip planked Ulua is far more difficult to build than a plywood boat of the same length. I think an amatasi could be coastal cruised but you'd have to be really tough and able to live in a largely open boat. Anyway it would be safer than most open boats being unsinkable, and self draining.
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Amatasi ethnic workboat design
I looked it up. The 21' Tahiti Wayfarer in double canoe form weighs 485lbs compared to tiki 21's 790lbs, a huge difference, while the outrigger canoe TW weighs only 330lbs. This points out what the ethnic designs are about to me. Almost eliminating accommodation (not for everyone) reduces weight and windage, greatly dropping the boats displacement weight ratio into the the ideal range so its very easily driven. So, a smaller rig is required, then the boat need not be as stable and by narrowing is yet lighter, a virtuous cycle.
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Amatasi ethnic workboat design
Comparing the weight of the T21 with the WF21 of course the WF is lighter. There is no inside at all, it is just two open canoes with a platform between. I at first thought that the Amatasi had decks but on closer examination it doesn't have decks exactly but it does have well decks and maybe wet wells or iceboxes for fish. The weight might be a little less than a T26. In any case it really has very strong visual appeal. I'm simply not interested in a boat that doesn't push my buttons. I would be very enthused about building one of these boats.
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Amatasi ethnic workboat design
Can anyone post a pic of Amatasi? I am somewhat challenged by a slow connection to view it in the link at the start of this thread :) cheers Ross
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Amatasi ethnic workboat design
Ross, right now it only exists as a model. But JWD put a story up about it here: http://wharram.eu//live//article.php?story=20100715135624601
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Amatasi ethnic workboat design
The magazine article says the estimated cost is between 1500-2000 pounds; thats true?
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Re: Amatasi ethnic workboat design
First of all, the Studyplan is now available in the shop. This includes all the boat's dimensions and the drawings you see small in Classic Boat at scale 1:20. There is of course the materials list, the working out of this delayed the availability of the Studyplan. From the materials list I would now say the building cost will be around £2000 - 2500, a bit more than originally estimated, she needs approx. double the amount of materials of the Tahiti Wayfarer (double canoe), which just shows you how going up just 6ft in length increases the boat size. We are very excited about this new design, there is already a lot of interest from various Pacific Island groups where transport is a problem. We are planning to build one this winter, starting in November, we are looking for some volunteers to help with this, so anyone with some woodworking skills and a wish to learn more is welcome. Hanneke, JWD
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Amatasi ethnic workboat design
Do you have any plans to incorporate a single or double crab claw sail rig into the design?
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Amatasi ethnic workboat design
Could someone who has steered with the steering oars help with a description of how they feel when sailing and what they are like in tight narrow river situation. They make great sense for this design, especially for hauling nets over the stern, plus no lines catching under the rudders when lifting pots and great for a half tide mooring. Used to no rudders at all when windsurfing, but not steering a 27' with an oar before. Just to say also, that I think the hull lines are very elegant and it's great that this design won the CB design competition. Brian
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Amatasi ethnic workboat design
First of all to avoid confusion, most people use the term "steering oars" to refer to a long oar that runs aft pivoting off the stern x beam like on Hokelea. It is pushed from side to side to steer. This is not used on wharrams. Ethnic Wharrams steer with a paddle which in the case of Wayfarer can either be hand held or afixed to mounts on the hull side similar to the paddle/rudders on the Tama Moana. When affixed to the hullside the paddle/rudder feels almost just like any other balanced rudder with tiller. One difference is that the attachment lines have to be tightened from time to time to prevent them from squeaking. Also, I use only the rudder on the windward hull and switch when jibing or tacking except when short tacking or maneuvering. When short tacking I just use the same rudder all the time or when its really tight beating, like in an anchorage, no rudder at all which means no tiller to watch, fewer variables. Using both rudders connected by a crossbar could work well for short tacking and maneuvering but I haven't tried it. When running I leave both rudders down but steer with only the windward one and tie the leeward one, switching on jibing. Maneuvering in close quarters of course I just use one rudder all the time. The advantages are that the paddle/rudders are efficient being deep so can act as lateral plane, and they are especially easy to raise. Being deep they hit the ground sometimes, unlike other wharram rudders, but I hit a reef hard and fast with one while sailing around the lagoon of Wallis Is. and what happened was the lower mounting line sheered off with little other damage. The line has a breaking strength of 12,000lbs. but when the rudder is pushed aft the line is cut like with scissors between the rudder and the mount, and there is a backup rudder on the other hull so no problem. In California I sailed through kelp fields with both rudders raised in order to have nothing projecting, a unique possibility. I can sail either close hauled or square before , going backwards, without rudders. The Tahiti Wayfarer and Amatasi would be steered with the paddle hand held while maneuvering in close quarters, I think, which might offer other advantages. It took a while to get them right but now I like these paddle/rudders; they offer more possibilities than other configurations. Not many people are bold enough to really sail in rivers. If you are serious about doing real adventure sailing like that this would be the best of boats for it. In addition to having a paddle rudder you can use in a variety of ways like using different depths, actually paddling, or thrusting the stern one way or other. She'd be light enough to man-handle around like a dingy, pushing off mudbanks and shoals and such. Her decks are solid and clear for action. And she has less draft than other wharrams with her chines. I sailed up numerous rivers in Malaysia in my pahi 26 years ago, it was great working the tides and hearing the wind rustling the nipa along the banks. Go for it!
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Amatasi ethnic workboat design
Thank's Glenn for your detailed reply. Really helps to hear from a paddle steering practitioner. Brian
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Amatasi ethnic workboat design
Will the plans, once test built, be available as a digital DXF file so they could be passed to a CNC shop experienced in cutting boat kits? Brian
Anonymous (not verified)
Wingsails & self-steering
Considering the Tiki/Pahi 26 size would suit me perfectly, Amatasi is all the more alluring. Moreover, my dream rig is 2 identical Tiki wingsails with no fore sails. That means no roller stuff or multiple triangles to bother with at the most uncomfortable/dangerous point of the boat, and two identical flat sails, with one spare/small sail that would fit both masts equally well. Amatasi is closing up on that, too... The only long crossing I did was from Le Havre in France to Porto across the Bay of Biscay in late October on a Ketch rigged Westerly twin-keel, and I was less than impressed by the rear sail's performance or general usefullness. We got rough weather, and the rear sail just stayed down during the whole crossing... I would rather not have a tiny aft-sail with mast and complications on my boat. Now if I don't want fore-sails either, then a nice, big aft-sail is a logical solution. An Amatasi option with middle cockpit & lateral hatches à la Tiki/Pahi26 could also be reasonable for travelling I would think. This would be more expensive no doubt, but possibly better suited to warm-water cruising and offering more accommodation below deck. The hanging rudder-paddles are definitely going one step further in the right direction. I just wonder what an efficient and aesthetic self-steering wind vane for Amatasi would look like...
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Amatasi ethnic workboat design
Frere, you seem to have very specific ideas what you want in a boat like most boaters. I don't know about all those features but in general I urge you to respect the judgement of the designers rather than dreaming up a lot of modifications since modified wharrams are consistantly awful being typically based on imaginings rather than the lifetimes of ocean experience and experimenting with every design concept which wharrams are based on. I've learned this from experience, having seen strongly held aversions to wharram features on the two which I've owned proven wise. Let the wharrams teach you. One thing I do have experience with is the little aft sail on a ketch rig which is so universally derided. It is ill understood. It's primarily a steering sail which has little value on a motorboat but for a real sailor it allows self steering without additional devices, heaving to by simply taking down the mailsail, and the ability to tack going forwards, backwards or standing still in the water, amoung other valuble functions. Self steering wind vanes would look the same as on any other boat with external rudders and tillers.
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Amatasi ethnic workboat design
Thank you for you input Glenn, the functions of the mizzen sail you describe gave me a lot of thought. I feel more attracted to a schooner rig though, which could possibly provide some of those benefits. I like the idea of two high, efficient, identical and interchangeable main sails. And you certainly are right, the Wharram team deserves all the respect and attention we can pay them, they have learned us so much. The pictures of your Manurere sure are beautiful and inspiring!
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Amatasi ethnic workboat design
Thank you for your kind words frere, especially since I overstated my point about sticking to the plans. The wharrams definitely want to hear exactly ideas such as yours so that they can design to where the interest lies. And I even agree with most of your ideas about rig. Wingsails are more efficient than jibs or almost any other sail. and the schooner you prefer is probably more efficient than ketch or yawl due to the more even vertical sail area distribution. They were certainly designing especially for the eco-fishing niche, which perhaps wouldn't have an engine at all, like the eco-charter niche that the islander 39 with its similar ketch rig is aimed at. The schooner wouldn't have the same advantages for maneuvering under sail. I don't know myself what the advantage is for the sprit rig and without socks (?). We lovers of sail and environment can only hope that continued economic deterioration convinces more people to go this eco way.
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Amatasi ethnic workboat design
Hi - also curious as to whether the crabclaw ketch rig could be used on the Amatasi? Been waiting to see this boat - as i like both the tahiti wayfarer and the child of the sea - and wanted either a scaled down cots or a cross between the 2..... Seems there's others looking for this too! Doesn't look like there's much room below if the superstructure would be removed tho'..... would there? I know it's new out - but how about a crabclaw minimum cruiser version? PLEASE!!! :D PRETTY PLEASE!!!! :mrgreen: And while i'm pushing my luck - how about a JWD take on a proa - i'd love to see that too.... but only after the cruiser version...... ;)
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Amatasi ethnic workboat design
Hello, Here is the photo gallery for the build: https://picasaweb.google.com/JCaprani/Amatasi27AtJamesWharramDesigns?fea... Cheers, John
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Amatasi ethnic workboat design
Thanks for the link, John! Looks like fun! Great shots of James and Hanneke. . .Not to mention the other blokes. ;)
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Amatasi ethnic workboat design
I understand that this design is primarily build upon the needs of small fisherman. However, the above mentioned coastal cruiser version is very tempting (perhaps incl. 1-2x crab claw sails), I can imagine crew of two people, only one cuddy for electronics/navigation (another hull used for gear/supplies storage), possibility of erecting a small hiking tent on the spacious deck each evening in protected beach.. However, I'm a bit wondering about the low height of the cuddy cabin, only 100cm?, if I'm reading it correctly from the schematic plan. The cuddy could be perhaps raised few decimeters (at least 130cm) without any penalty by the builder though. This new Amatasi is really toring me apart, up to this date I thought the best option ever in this specified area of open deck (yet offering some cuddy protection) catamarans sized around 10m and on sound budget/hours invested; for coastal cruising is the Merlin/Shadow-Strider by Woods design. Now, Amatasi comes very close in terms of practicality and adds fabulous JWD esthetics and functional simplicity. http://www.sailingcatamarans.com/merlin.htm I'm not discussing other sizes-designs/bluewater application, since that's obviously JWD's undisputed and uncontested territory, however I'm not in position to jump into such ~Tiki40' project as of now. On related note, also, as mentioned previously in this thread, one could hope JWD might one day come up with serious proa/outrigger design in the 30-50' category. Same concept: 1-2x people coastal cruising and spartan living onboard - camping, limited cargo/gear capable, all on reasonable budget/building time, inspiration here: http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/garyd/te-wa.html http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/garyd/walap.html http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/garyd/ (the home of 24' Wa'apa now with junk rig): http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/garyd/wa_apa.html It's great that CNC premade kits (and/or full scale patterns) of Wharrams are finally appearing, not sure how far you can push it in terms of size, years ago there was a german project Tiki 46 (Teuton 47 by Nusser Yachtbau), which didn't materialize in the end? As of now the biggest kit is 30' offered by Ikarai in France. Hopefully, the popular appeal of Amatasi will make it into their kit selection as well. http://www.icarai.fr/kits/fr/wharram.html they do also other great boats/kits by Vivier (Seil 18, Elorn, Morbic12, .. Pen-Hir, Sjogin/Norzh 22 ..): http://www.vivierboats.com/ PS I hope Hanneke is going well by now.
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Amatasi ethnic workboat design
Hi John Capriani, Very nice work on very nice boat... At very nice place! You are privileged! We wait for more pictures from Amatasi 27' building, please. best regards, Tarcisio. http://www.polinesio.net
okarabacak
Offline
Joined: 10/29/2014 - 23:02
amantasi rudders bulky and nonfolding

 Hi I have build a melanesia, Gierking s hawaian conoe. I interested Amantasi but the rudder system seems to me nonshock absorbing and bulky
Rudder may have to attachments, one on the iakos other on the hull that may vertically fix the rudder and a hinge mechanism safely absorbs and folds the rudders on shallow water shock
Can someone tell me what is the idea behind such an angulating fix rope handling of rudders which make them stiff and shalow water sensetive.
Best construction all
I am currently busy making a asymetriacal cat by one hull of melanesia and another of Ulua and make folding rudder system
Any comments wellcome
Onur 

okarabacak
Offline
Joined: 10/29/2014 - 23:02
amantasi rudders bulky and nonfolding

 Hi I have build a melanesia, Gierking s hawaian conoe. I interested Amantasi but the rudder system seems to me nonshock absorbing and bulky
Rudder may have to attachments, one on the iakos other on the hull that may vertically fix the rudder and a hinge mechanism safely absorbs and folds the rudders on shallow water shock
Can someone tell me what is the idea behind such an angulating fix rope handling of rudders which make them stiff and shalow water sensetive.
Best construction all
I am currently busy making a asymetriacal cat by one hull of melanesia and another of Ulua and make folding rudder system
Any comments wellcome
Onur 

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