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Pahi Beam & Hatches

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Anonymous (not verified)
Pahi Beam & Hatches
After initially falling in love with the Pahi 26, I eventually decided to build a Tiki 21 next year. Still, thoughts of the Pahi (with gaff wing sail) still linger, so before I close out all hope on them for ever, I just wanted to ask you good people a couple of quick questions. 1. Could anyone tell me of any problems with extending the overall beam of the Pahi, to the same as the Tiki 26? (ie - using Tiki 26 beams) 2. Those big hatches directly over the bunks have always had me wondering. Is anyone aware of possible improvements to making the hatches absolutely watertight/secure/bomb-proof? Anyway, hoping someone can point me in the right direction and put me out of my misery, one way or the other. Thanks. SD
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Pahi Beam & Hatches
Scott, Here are the words of Steve Turner, who has years of experience building and sailing these boats: "We have re-rigged a couple of Pahi 31s with the wingsail and it noticeably improved their windward performance. As someone who once had to sail 1000 ocean miles in light headwinds on a standard rigged Pahi 31, I must emphasise that light airs to windward are NOT the boats strong point! Having sailed most of Wharram's designs, Pahis, classics and Tikis, in sizes from 14' to 63', I can state catagorically that the small Pahis are the worst performing of all his boats. I know that this will upset a few diehard Pahi 31 and 26 sailors, who will want to defend their boats, but with all else equal a Tiki 21/26/31 will sail rings around a Pahi of the same size. (If you think that there is no such thing as a Pahi 21, well there was, but it was quietly "buried"). I am not saying the Pahi 26/31 enthusiasts should ditch their boats, boat ownership is an emotional thing, if logic dictated our choice we would all be sailing some very boring boats. But if you are looking for good windward and light air performance from a Wharram cat, the small Pahis are not the place to start. If you can find a Classic Tane 27 in good condition, strip off all excess weight and put decent sails on it, you will have a good sailing boat. A Tiki 26 or 30 will be fast, quite weatherly and a fairly good performer in light airs. The small Pahi might just break your heart! Steve"
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Pahi Beam & Hatches
Hi Kim. Thanks for your post and I'm very sorry for my delay in replying. I was initially waiting to see what (if any) responses others might make, but then I got busy and just plain forgot. Steve's comments are sobering and duly noted. I'm surprised to hear how badly he felt the Pahi's perform compared to Tikis, etc. Still, the hull form really speaks to me regardless. I've heard a fair few positive remarks from satisfied owners as well so I'm not really put off. I'm kind of resolved now that the Pahi 26 is going to be the one (here's hoping that I've made the right decision). Would welcome any comments (good or bad) from anyone regarding the Pahis. Anyway, once again many tanks for adding to my knowlege about this boat. SD
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Pahi Beam & Hatches
I wonder if Steve Turner meant even if the small pahi had the wingsail rig. I thought my p26 did well but didn't have an opportunity to compare with a tiki - maybe they are even better. I haven't met Steve but sailer's in general spin yarns as if they knew what they don't like crazy. He might have had a motor on the tiki but not on the pahi just as an example. That'd be so boater-like. What I did about the hatches was have them open from the center of the boat instead of the ends. Then I built garages that they still into at the ends like a companionway top. I raised the deck combings about 3/4 inch so there was space under the hatch cover combings then I added 2 inch high combings on the deck around the outside of the hatch covers. there were never seals but they were leak tight like this. I don't think it'd be worth the mess of design changes to widen her. Child of the sea is only 15' wide.
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Pahi Beam & Hatches
Glenn makes a good point, as I am sure Steve Turner meant with the original rig, not with the tiki wingsail rig. Hey there Glenn!
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Pahi Beam & Hatches
Hi Kim and thanks for your kind reply. I thought I'd get savaged for my sarcastic ribbing of boater observational tendencies. The pahi 26 may be more sensitive to buffoonery on the part of the skipper in fact, with its long overhangs and and generally small size. If Steve tried one out that had mass way out on the ends, raised decks, pod, and/or raised masts, it would have been really bad. At least 3/4 of the wharrams I've come across cruising have had their performance diminished or destroyed through these acts of defiance against the laws of physics. You'll also note that Steve is a delivery skipper and that engines are never turned off during deliveries. When I was cruising on the pahi 26 there were often other boats sailing (not motoring) in and out of harbors like San Diego Bay, La Paz, and Pago Pago so there were abundant opportunities to compare boats and I grew accustomed to being faster than anything else (especially beating) as long as the bottom was clean. Comparison opportunities nowadays are rare.
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Pahi Beam & Hatches
Hi guys, thanks for the interesting perspectives. It's a big help in getting my head around the boat and the whole project in general. I take your point about needlessly modifying the plans Glenn. I'm thinking about limiting any changes to just the hatches and perhaps mounting an outboard aft of the rear platform beam, so as to keep the platform as clear & open as possible. Reckon I'll need the motor due to some pretty strong currents here in my local waters (Ettalong Channel). Was wondering about the practicality of a cat walk, similar the the 63ft Spirit of Gaia, but s'pose it comes back to what you mentioned about weight in the ends, so prob forget about that. BTW, have really been enjoying your writings about Peregrine and (lately) your trip aboard your Child of the Sea. Very inspiring and motivating. I'd love a Child of the Sea myself but think it'd be a bit beyond me. I'm currently aiming to build something rather smaller first, to establish my boatbuilding capabilities. I've been getting into outrigger paddling lately and am very keen on building a Ulua. It'd be perfect for fitness training, plus surfing here at Box head as well as for chucking some light camping gear in for the odd little expedition. Only problem is that it's strip plank, not stitch and tape method. Still, I think if I can produce a good finish, then I should be able to adapt for the Pahi when the time comes. Anyway, many thanks yet again. Please keep the good oil comming. SD
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Pahi Beam & Hatches
Got some free internet time so here's some more about what I think about pahis and tikis. There are two fundemetal differences. The pahi is high prismatic coeficeint the tiki low. This means the tiki's sides curve toward the ends in a uniform way starting from the widest point near the middle. The pahis sides run almost parrallel to each other through the middle then make a reletively abrupt turn in toward the ends.You can see this in the keel line viewed from the side, it makes a smooth uniform curve on the tiki but runs straight in the middle quarter of the hull of the pahi making a more abrupt turn up toward the ends. High prismatic is lower in both friction and wave making drag than low. With the buyancy distributed out towards the ends the maximum girth of the hull is less in the high prismatic and wave making is proportional to maximum girth. The second fundemental difference is the overhangs at the ends of pahi are longer and lower. I think this dramatically reduces rough water drag. There are other consequences to these differences. The tiki turns quicker than the pahi but I found that once I got the knack and using the wingsail rig I could tack the pahi 26 with absolute cirtainty. Otherwise slow turning is an advantage in cruising.
Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Pahi Beam & Hatches
Hi Glen, sorry about the delay in replying. Thanks for the interesting info on the Pahis (again). Certainly reinforces my gut feelings on the design. One bit of good news is that I've finally got my act together & actually started on my first boat build. I have gone for the Ulua and started it last week. I don't know how long it's going to take me to build, nor what it's going to look like when finished, but I glad to be doing something positive towards my own boat (and eventually perhaps to my Pahi). I'm blogging it (http://scottyscanoe.blogspot.com), in case there's other lazy procrastinators out there who might get some benefit from it. :roll: